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this is need to know real talk about\h
the reality of unidentified aerial\h\h

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phenomenon from australia ross\h
coltart from the us bryce zabal

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well folks let me welcome all our listeners\h
and viewers to the 10th episode of need to know\h\h

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you know we ran this idea up the flagpole last\h
december on the fourth anniversary of the new\h\h

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york times reporting of the uap issue we're still\h
here our idea then as it remains today is to treat\h\h

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our listeners like their time is valuable and to\h
give you a 45 minute briefing on a regular basis\h\h

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we've done shows about what's going on right now\h
we've delved into the hidden history of the issue\h\h

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and while we don't pretend to know what the\h
ultimate answer is yet we do know enough\h\h

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to say that governments have for decades been\h
telling people nothing to see here while they\h\h

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were taking this issue very very seriously let me\h
bring in the man down under ross coldheart ross\h\h

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every show for me feels like we are riding\h
a tiger into a very dense jungle it scares\h\h

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the hell out of me sometimes but i know\h
that letting go is just not an option\h\h

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look i agree with you it's a complex issue this\h
whole subject matter and this is why what i think\h\h

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we're doing here on need to know really matters\h
bryce because ultimately i'm trying to talk to the\h\h

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person who if i was sitting in a bar in washington\h
dc and they asked me what's all this stuff about\h\h

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uaps i'd tell them to listen to in need to know\h
to ntk so this week my friend what we're looking\h\h

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at is do no harm the threat narrative is there\h
in modern ufology an argument that whatever the\h\h

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phenomenon is it's benign that it's no threat to\h
humanity or is it as summer postulating a threat\h\h

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what's the evidence i thought today would be a\h
good day to do a bit of a dig into that area it's\h\h

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a great day to do it and honestly if there's just\h
no other issue that seems to divide the ufological\h\h

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community you got people on one side of the\h
spectrum and the other which we'll all get into\h\h

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uh soon uh you know i think right now let's\h
let's do what we talked about we want to bring in\h\h

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our producer of need to know rich johnson our man\h
in las vegas rich thanks for coming in you've been\h\h

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with us from the beginning for all 10 of these\h
and even before so first of all thank you and\h\h

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thank you for including me on this project i'm in\h
las vegas which is a great place to be for this\h\h

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subject if if you ask most uh people around the\h
world to sort of give us ground zero of ufology\h\h

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i mean maybe they'd say roswell but for a lot\h
of people on the inside they'd say las vegas\h\h

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indeed we're just down this road well a very long\h
road from area 51 the nevada test and training\h\h

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range run by the u.s air force now one source says\h
it's a detachment of edwards air force base which\h\h

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is 400 miles away another one says it's nellis\h
about 100 miles away right here in las vegas but\h\h

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the nttr is built as the largest contiguous air\h
and ground space available for peacetime military\h\h

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operations in the free world that is the uh\h
the public line and they're sticking to it\h\h

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and within it of course is the subsection we all\h
love to call area 51. what's with all the areas\h\h

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by the way are there i mean literally is the\h
map divided up out there yeah one of the maps i\h\h

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found and you know they're not a lot of them there\h
are all kinds of little areas at nttr i don't\h\h

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think there are a full 51 of them but i found you\h
know area one all the way up to area 30 around the\h\h

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uh the yucca mountains and then in the northeast\h
corner up against groom lake a dry lake bed there\h\h

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is according to a map or two area 51. closest i've\h
ever been is up highway 95 you can see hundreds if\h\h

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not thousands of these quonset hut style buildings\h
that store munitions part of creech air force base\h\h

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but area 51 of course is way way beyond the\h
horizon of u.s 95. it it's so good to know\h\h

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rich that you live in las vegas because when the\h
tr-3b the the secret ufo is found inside area 51\h\h

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bryce and i and all our families in fact all our\h
friends can come and stay at your place uh yeah\h\h

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rich you're a journalist as well with uh many many\h
great credits and and obviously las vegas is also\h\h

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the home of george knapp who's not only a friend\h
of the show i guess but also just one of the top\h\h

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investigative reporters in this subject forever\h
do you uh have you watched him on television when\h\h

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he does this local news as well i have seen him\h
once in a while he retired a couple of years ago\h\h

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and they had quite the send-off for him because it\h
came around the same time as the 30th anniversary\h\h

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of his landmark 1989 interview of bob lazar\h
who alleged the potential link between area 51\h\h

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and aliens and klas tv became the first mainstream\h
media outlet to report this allegation the idea\h\h

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of area 51's covert mission was out there and of\h
course it's still out there no no i was going to\h\h

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say and of course there was just recently a lot\h
of publicity about area 51 there was some crazy\h\h

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ideas do you want to talk about that storm area\h
51 the foolish notion that a huge mass of people\h\h

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would be able to overwhelm the air force mps\h
and force their way on the base and get up to\h\h

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area 51 and find the truth uh that morphed\h
into a rock concert called alien stock all\h\h

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things extraterrestrial in the tiny town of\h
rachel nevada which is pretty much just a\h\h

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a restaurant in a motel that whole thing\h
fell apart they had an alternative concert\h\h

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lawsuits ensued about a year ago everybody\h
settled up money exchanged hands and it all\h\h

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got sealed up the records got sealed about\h
the only winner of the time was a woman named\h\h

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connie west the owner of the the only motel\h
in rachel and when it came time for area 51\h\h

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the storm area 51 not 150 people showed up at the\h
two gates at nttr not a big challenge for the mps\h\h

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i i think the interesting thing about area 51\h
is that it's a physical symbol of the mystery\h\h

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because for years we've known that there is the\h
secret facility where allegedly uap technology is\h\h

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either being tested or back engineered and this\h
is what the fundamental purpose of need to know\h\h

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is all about we're in we're inquiring into that\h
mystery and trying to get behind it so thanks\h\h

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very much for that rich we'll we'll come back\h
to staying at your place in area 51 another time\h\h

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what i think we need to talk about is this week's\h
news and one of the most important events that\h\h

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happened this week was our friend john greenwald\h
from the black vault website who does so much good\h\h

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foi research he obtained the redacted classified\h
version of the uap report that was provided\h\h

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to congress on 25th of june last year this was\h
the preliminary report on uaps and a public\h\h

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version had been released which was about nine\h
pages which really didn't say very much at all\h\h

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but what john greenwald did with great\h
effect was obtain a slightly longer report\h\h

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which was the uh redacted uh as released\h
classified version of the uap report and\h\h

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it it had some interesting new revelations not a\h
huge amount but interesting nonetheless you know\h\h

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ross what made what it raised as a question\h
for me is i'm looking over this thing saying\h\h

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okay if it was supposed to be classified and\h
it went to the senators and the congress people\h\h

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uh for them to look at and it was the longer\h
enhanced version why was it open to a foia release\h\h

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so close to when it was given to them in\h
a classified format we don't typically\h\h

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handle classified material that way so what what\h
went down oh look it's basically full of black\h\h

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redactions to be honest bryce the most interesting\h
stuff is behind black boxes so look one of the\h\h

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things that um has been revolving around in\h
the debate this week is is uh what's behind the\h\h

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redactions and one of the most interesting things\h
was that there was a section in the report that\h\h

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described the shapes of the uaps that have been\h
seen mainly by navy pilots and commercial pilots\h\h

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and that was redacted that was classified which\h
kind of begged the question why would you have to\h\h

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classify something that was merely describing\h
the shapes of the objects that have been seen\h\h

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there's a couple of takeaways from the report that\h
i thought were significant that if you interpret\h\h

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the report clearly it means that about 80 out\h
of 144 cases that were included in the report\h\h

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were corroborated by several systems at once which\h
is very significant they were corroborated either\h\h

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by radar visual by pilots or visual by either\h
ultraviolet or infrared sensors or perhaps also by\h\h

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satellites and that's very significant because it\h
explains why it's being taken so seriously there's\h\h

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multiple corroboration of what these pilots were\h
seeing it wasn't just their eyeballs it wasn't\h\h

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just their gun cameras it was other data sources\h
that corroborated and underlined what these people\h\h

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were seeing um i i think that's really important\h
but the it was very frustrating because in the\h\h

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end a lot of the debate about the significance\h
of the report descended into an argument about\h\h

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whether or not it was 17 pages or the 70 pages\h
that have been suggested by some people including\h\h

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lou elizondo and frankly to me it's a kind of a\h
silly argument i'm not really fussed about that\h\h

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the fact is uh they've been able to get this\h
report released and information's been provided\h\h

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to the congress that is of significance notably\h
and as we know from last year i don't disagree\h\h

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that it's a silly argument but i do kind of wonder\h
do we know factually whether it was 17 pages or 70\h\h

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7-0 pages or was this just somebody mishearing 17\h
and the thinking 70. i mean what what's the truth\h\h

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on that do we do we know look to be honest i don't\h
know for sure i mean one explanation that's been\h\h

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offered to me is that the uh report the classified\h
report that went to congress had appendices that\h\h

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weren't included in the redacted version that\h
was provided to john greenwald frankly we just\h\h

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don't know but what disturbs me and this takes\h
us on to another issue that i think we should\h\h

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address this week what disturbs me is that it's\h
been used yet again to attack the credibility of\h\h

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uh people like louis lozando who who\h
did suggest that the report was long\h\h

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i think there is a kind of an expectation\h
in ufology that essentially it's the duty of\h\h

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former insiders like elizondo to give the ufology\h
world everything on a plate and just to serve it\h\h

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up and say here's the secrets here are the dark\h
secrets from within the defense department and\h\h

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the intelligence community that's not how it\h
works and i think this is going to be a long\h\h

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slow iterative process and i i see no evidence\h
that people like elizondo or chris mellon aren't\h\h

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doing the best that they possibly can to bring\h
what they can do to the public you're certainly\h\h

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right that's not necessarily how it works but i\h
think what's interesting is we really haven't had\h\h

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a luellazondo out there before i mean here's a guy\h
who ran the program that the government set up for\h\h

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several years many years and then suddenly he\h
resigns and now he's sort of it's almost like\h\h

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a whistleblower but not quite he's resigned and\h
now he's out there telling the truth as he knows\h\h

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it but he's being somewhat coy by saying he's got\h
an nda but at the same time he's laying out more\h\h

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provocative things and i think the question has\h
come up over and over is like will the real lou\h\h

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elizondo please stand up people are just not\h
quite sure what they should make of him now\h\h

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i know that at the very least you know the man you\h
have uh interviewed him and based on watching your\h\h

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documentary that you did last year you've been\h
out to i think his ranch and you've gone on a hike\h\h

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with the man so tell me what your assessment on a\h
personal level of of his veracity is and and also\h\h

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what you think the game he is being forced\h
to play uh what the rules about that game are

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there's no doubt in my mind that lua lizondo\h
is genuine he's authentic he's he's a former\h\h

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counter-intelligence officer though working or\h
who has worked inside the united states government\h\h

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so you know he's he's operating within the\h
constraints of his security oath there's no\h\h

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doubt that he knows a hell of a lot more than he's\h
allowed to publicly let on the the the interesting\h\h

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thing is the one thing that i did learn when i was\h
doing my research into lou was that he was cleared\h\h

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to a level inside the office that he was working\h
from the office of the under secretary of\h\h

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defense intelligence and security he was working\h
at a level that i don't think people realize there\h\h

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was a time i'm told not by lou but by others that\h
he was essentially a liaison between that section\h\h

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of the defense department and what's called the\h
special access program oversight committee which\h\h

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is essentially the committee that oversights all\h
of the biggest secrets inside the us government\h\h

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this is a guy who really does know where all the\h
bodies are buried he knows all the secret projects\h\h

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and frankly if there is a tr-3b or an aurora\h
jacked up on blocks in a cave in area 51 right\h\h

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nearby right near rich's place then it's it's\h
going to be he who knows it and so one of the\h\h

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things that i i think is the first what's coming\h
through at the moment on social media and twitter\h\h

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is a sense of frustration from the research\h
community that he's not being more candid than\h\h

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he is i think he's being as candid as he possibly\h
can be well you when you just said he knows where\h\h

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the bodies are buried i i immediately was taken\h
aback because if he knows a hell of a lot more\h\h

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than what he's actually saying let's review what\h
he's actually been saying he's sort of confirmed\h\h

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crash wreckage exists he's confirmed that we have\h
a video of occupants on some of these craft so\h\h

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you know that's a lot to digest right there and\h
i have to say uh i've seen probably more lou\h\h

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elizondo interviews than i have of you or anyone\h
else i mean this this guy uh is ubiquitous uh he's\h\h

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he's not turned down very many opportunities to\h
talk to people about it and for that i commend\h\h

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him i mean it's it's been uh really fantastic\h
and and to listen to lou uh is to hear a man who\h\h

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certainly sounds like he's in the know and sounds\h
like he is you know answering a higher calling\h\h

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and yet as you point out uh if you go to the\h
wild west which is what you know many people\h\h

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talk about hashtag ufo twitter as being uh you get\h
a lot of people who are frustrated and i i wish\h\h

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they i wish we could work this out uh so that we\h
could sort of focus on the path ahead because when\h\h

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when we have to degenerate into arguing about what\h
lou knows and what lou doesn't know and whether\h\h

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he's this or whether he's that it seems to um it\h
seems to work against the greater uh goal but we\h\h

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just haven't had in history too many people i\h
mean we did as we talked about last week have\h\h

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uh captain edward rupelt who was with blue book\h
who was pretty outspoken after he left blue book\h\h

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but he may have known more than he was\h
talking about i've never seen anybody who had\h\h

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a legitimate job in the u.s government who has\h
said things more provocative than lou elizondo\h\h

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so if he's uh if he's not making it then god\h
bless him one thing that i want to address is and\h\h

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i don't know if this is true or not but i think\h
lou was accused by certain people on social media\h\h

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of putting up proxy accounts on twitter that\h
were pushing a view that through an anonymous\h\h

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identity uh sock puppets yeah and the interesting\h
thing is if you look and i'm not going to dignify\h\h

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it with a with a uh uh you know a credit of\h
naming people but if you look at what some\h\h

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scumbags have actually been saying about he\h
or more importantly his wife i can understand\h\h

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why the guy if he did do that was pissed off i\h
mean for god's sake you've had that ridiculous\h\h

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performance at the oscars this week where a\h
certain actor who i won't name uh violently\h\h

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assaulted a comedian for the simple fact that he\h
was offended by what somebody said about his wife\h\h

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what the hell was wrong even if lou did do this\h
if he if he did set up a proxy twitter account\h\h

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to basically have a go at the people\h
who were attacking him and his family\h\h

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what was wrong with that well is there any\h
evidence that he was sowing disinformation\h\h

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i don't think there is i i i and he's talked\h
about that just in case people are saying wait\h\h

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hold on sock puppets all right if you're on uh\h
twitter or any social media but let's use twitter\h\h

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then you like ross you have a twitter account\h
that's at ross coldheart you're ross coldheart\h\h

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at ross coldheart and i'm bryce abel at bryce abel\h
and and so there's no attempt to hide who we are\h\h

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when we make a statement and the idea of a sock\h
puppet is that you've created a twitter account\h\h

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that disguises who you are and i guess the\h
accusation is that lou did that and he did it\h\h

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as you said probably because he was irritated\h
that people were saying nasty things not just\h\h

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about himself but about his family and he wanted\h
to respond to it but i haven't actually heard him\h\h

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state that in so many words and i've listened to\h
a lot of his interviews recently so i'm just not\h\h

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clear on where this is going and i just want\h
to assure people we're not talking about this\h\h

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because we think it's you know juicy or gossipy\h
i think it if he was a lesser person in the whole\h\h

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ufology field uh we would dismiss it and move on\h
but because he's such an important and and cr and\h\h

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and and needed person in trying to get to what\h
we do need to know about this it's important to\h\h

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sort of sort these issues out to sort it and i and\h
even if we can't answer that entire question today\h\h

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we'll stay on it and as this evolves we will talk\h
more about it now coming up next of course we're\h\h

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talking about the threat narrative and i think\h
this is the sort of stuff we should be talking\h\h

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about not getting diverted from essentially\h
a lot of irrelevancy let's talk about the big\h\h

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things in uap research so coming up is there a\h
threat from the phenomenon next on need to know\h\h

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oh

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well we're back and we are talking about the\h
threat narrative if you will um and as we talked\h\h

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about in the last there's kind of a spectrum\h
of how people view the phenomenon some people\h\h

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are on one side of it and they say hey look\h
they're they're benevolent space brothers\h\h

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that's what i would call the sort of the uh e.t\h
the extraterrestrial version the the scientists\h\h

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who are looking here and and friendly to us and\h
then on the other side you have the independence\h\h

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day crowd that says no they're here to do no\h
particularly good and they're going to blow\h\h

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up the white house or something and then the truth\h
may be somewhere in the middle in that we may have\h\h

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multiple things to be talking about and that's\h
what we want to do today but ross one thing i\h\h

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wanted to do before we got started on that is to\h
give an example we have said on multiple occasions\h\h

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on this show that uh the uap have been seen over\h
and over near nuclear power plants near nuclear\h\h

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weapons near nuclear assets and there's really a\h
couple ways you could look at that and i've heard\h\h

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it both ways uh one way is on one side of the\h
spectrum say people say well of course they're\h\h

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looking into our nuclear weapons because they\h
want to save us from ourselves the reason they're\h\h

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learning how to turn off our nuclear weapons is\h
that if they could do that they could keep nuclear\h\h

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war from happening on earth and that would be a\h
lovely thing i suppose but then on the other side\h\h

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of the spectrum you have people saying it's not\h
a good thing if someone you don't know who won't\h\h

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announce their intentions or who they are or why\h
they're here are shutting off your nuclear weapons\h\h

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uh that might very well be a a threat assessment\h
on their part so i throw that to you my friend\h\h

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i i agree with you bryce i mean the the\h
simple fact is we don't know if this is\h\h

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extraterrestrial we don't even know if this\h
is uh a non-human intelligence for sure that's\h\h

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that's what people like lua lizondo and others are\h
suggesting it is and interestingly lou gives us a\h\h

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good segue into what we're talking about this week\h
because just this week in an interview with linda\h\h

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moulton howe he talked about an incident involving\h
an aircraft carrier that suffered a shutdown of\h\h

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either all or some of its systems because of a\h
uaep he didn't say which one but i've been doing\h\h

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a bit of digging and i suspect what he's talking\h
about is an incident that took place in 1970s 1971\h\h

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involving the uss john f kennedy in or\h
around the bermuda triangle near cuba\h\h

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and in that incident the ship didn't lose power\h
but its communication systems were jammed uh\h\h

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it went out of they went out of water when there\h
was a sphere hovering overhead it's not mentioned\h\h

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in the ship's official history but by definition\h
i would have thought that something like that that\h\h

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involves an attempt by an object an unidentified\h
aerial phenomena hovering over the craft over the\h\h

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ship shutting down a vital system that that ship\h
could use to defend itself that by by its very\h\h

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nature is what the military would call a threat\h
right now i don't know why this is even being\h\h

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debated then then we come to biological well you\h
know what though let's let's give just a little\h\h

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i just because i loved the research that was done\h
on this kennedy the uss kennedy and one of the\h\h

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things that jumped out at me is okay they they\h
not the communication system gets knocked down\h\h

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but supposedly there's a a pneumatic tube system\h
that also works for communications in there and\h\h

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that a loud voice proclaimed during this so i i so\h
i guess the communication outward wasn't working\h\h

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but there was in-ship communication of some kind\h
but this loud voice proclaims there is something\h\h

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hovering over the ship all right and a moment\h
or two later according to this report another\h\h

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voice shouts and i i don't even know i'll just\h
say it the voice says it's the end of the world\h\h

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okay you can you can actually see these you\h
can see these interviews online uh stephen\h\h

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greer to his credit did some interviews for his\h
disclosure project with some of these people\h\h

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they're named they're identified\h
they've confirmed their service\h\h

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a couple of them were in the communications\h
room of the ship and they actually ran\h\h

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from the communications room to the exte outside\h
of the ship to have a look and they actually saw\h\h

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uh whatever this object was a large\h
glowing sphere hovering above the ship\h\h

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and the interesting thing is this was meddling\h
with the systems of a blooming aircraft carrier\h\h

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yes you know that that's a nuclear-armed aircraft\h
carrier indisputably one of the most powerful\h\h

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weapons in the world by any definition a threat\h
and these people went out to take a look at it\h\h

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and just to remind everyone what they saw they\h
saw something that they recorded as as what they\h\h

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thought was between two and three hundred feet now\h
i know that you don't use feet where you are and\h\h

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you know i don't you we've got that communications\h
thing so i always think in football fields\h\h

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all right a football field here is a hundred\h
yards which is roughly 100 meters i don't know\h\h

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exactly what it is in australia so this means\h
that whatever was hovering over this craft was\h\h

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about the length of a football field or close to\h
it and that's a pretty big thing to have hovering\h\h

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over a uh aircraft carrier which which kind of is\h
a good segue for another story that you and i have\h\h

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talked about previously the the ref bentwaters\h
the rendlesham mystery and what interests me\h\h

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about that case which was an incident that took\h
place at a nuclear base that the americans and\h\h

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the british jointly operated in the united kingdom\h
is that there were biological effects that were\h\h

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allegedly also described being inflicted on at\h
least one of the people that witnessed this object\h\h

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landing in the rendelsham forest adjacent to this\h
air base raft bent waters in the united kingdom\h\h

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which allegedly was nuclear-armed it was one\h
of the main nuclear bases in the united kingdom\h\h

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and in december 1980 when airman john burrows and\h
his colleague sergeant jim peniston went into the\h\h

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rendelsham forest to investigate an object which\h
was seen descending into the forest burroughs\h\h

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said he only saw strange flashing red green and\h
blue lights and a clearing that threw off the\h\h

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image of something that looked like a craft but\h
he never saw anything metallic or hard peniston\h\h

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has described in great detail actually physically\h
touching a craft which he had almost said almost\h\h

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had a sort of a smoky glass like structure to\h
its external structure with symbols on the side\h\h

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but the takeaway from that case that has often\h
been overlooked is that john burroughs suffered\h\h

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terrible injuries he suffered heart injuries\h
that incredibly in or around 2015 as a result of\h\h

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the intervention of the good senator john mccain\h
airman first class john burroughs was acknowledged\h\h

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to have suffered what apparently were huge doses\h
of radiation while investigating this matter\h\h

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and the u.s veterans association the the va that\h
looks after injured veterans agreed to pay for his\h\h

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treatment after john mccain successfully helped\h
him obtain his medical evidence to actually show\h\h

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that he'd suffered some kind of an injury during\h
this incident i think that's very significant\h\h

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it's essentially a biological effect caused by a\h
uap acknowledged by an arm of the us government\h\h

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well you know what's also interesting about that\h
ross is it was a holiday season to remember in\h\h

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late december of 1980 because not only did\h
you have that case with burroughs in the\h\h

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bent waters case but at the same time literally a\h
few days later here in the united states in texas\h\h

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we have the so-called cash landrum case and and\h
and while burroughs actually won his legal battle\h\h

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if you will to be recognized and treated for his\h
injuries cash landrum turns out another way i'm\h\h

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going to let ut up lander while i look up the\h
effects that some of these people suffered okay\h\h

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cash landrum is an amazing case bryce because i i\h
strongly suspect cash landrum was some kind of u.s\h\h

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project but what it involved was on the evening\h
of 29th december 1980 which as you say is very\h\h

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very close to the ref bentwaters case across on\h
the united kingdom betty cash vicki landrum and\h\h

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colby landrum who were seven years old at the time\h
were driving home to their home in dayton texas\h\h

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and all of a sudden they came across a huge\h
diamond-shaped object hovering over the road\h\h

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and it appeared to be in trouble it was\h
emitting flame and emitting significant heat\h\h

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so much heat that allegedly somebody's\h
hand on the dashboard actually sank into\h\h

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the vinyl on the dashboard and\h
the family allegedly suffered\h\h

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very serious radiation injuries that were measured\h
and assessed as real by doctors and because they\h\h

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believed that the us military was involved\h
because there were allegedly a large number\h\h

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of helicopters pursuing this object that appeared\h
to be united states military helicopters they sued\h\h

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the us government as you say and unfortunately\h
they lost the case because they couldn't prove\h\h

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that the the object that was seen was in fact\h
a u.s government object even though they were\h\h

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shown to have suffered some terrible biological\h
effects from their exposure to this radiation\h\h

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they couldn't prove definitively that whatever it\h
was it was part of the us military that it caused\h\h

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let's talk about those biological effects\h
uh there were large painful blisters for one\h\h

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and uh cash uh went into an emergency room days\h
after this because it they didn't go away and she\h\h

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could barely walk and and had lost large patches\h
of skin and clumps of hair was released after 12\h\h

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days and it gets very specific you said a lot\h
of helicopters there were 23 by the count of\h\h

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the cash lender i mean if you have enough time\h
to count 23 helicopters you have to ask yourself\h\h

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how often are 23 helicopters dispatched to do\h
much of anything but again uh that case was not\h\h

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a win that was one where the government was able\h
to say that uh it wasn't wasn't us which is kind\h\h

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of interesting if if you're saying it wasn't\h
us that doesn't necessarily mean you're saying\h\h

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wasn't anybody it could be somebody now\h
this is where it gets interesting because\h\h

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a lot of people might be thinking okay those are\h
historical cases of biological effects from uaps\h\h

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i'd like to talk about a more contemporary one\h
right i i have a very personal friend a very close\h\h

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friend damian knott who is one of australia's\h
foremost uap researchers he's gravely ill\h\h

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at the moment very very seriously ill after he\h
was exposed a few years ago to what he says was\h\h

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a uap that essentially descended and he'd been\h
watching it for about 40 seconds in his backyard\h\h

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it descended towards him his girlfriend mel was\h
with him for a large part of the earlier part when\h\h

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he was filming and watching this object she went\h
inside and then what he describes happened was\h\h

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that as he was watching this object it essentially\h
descended towards him very very closely\h\h

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and emitted a huge flash of bluish light now ever\h
since that incident which damien told me about\h\h

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he's got gravely ill he lives in a small country\h
town in regional new south wales here in australia\h\h

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and his symptoms his doctors tell\h
him are consistent with exposure to\h\h

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very weird radiation they can't explain\h
his injuries he's suffering um uh\h\h

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horrible sort of osteoporosis symptoms where\h
his bones are very very brutal he um he uh has\h\h

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anomalous mri scans his brain scans show anomalies\h
which uh american experts that he's been in touch\h\h

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with from harvard university who are involved\h
in brain scan studies tell him are unusual and\h\h

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this is a this is a person who was exposed in\h
australia just to within a few years ago and and\h\h

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i can tell you the symptoms that he's suffering\h
are very very grave indeed and look if there's\h\h

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anybody out there by the way who's a doctor who\h
actually knows anything about treating people\h\h

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with radiation injuries damien's very keen to\h
hear from them we're actually going to show\h\h

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in the vodcast we're going to show pictures\h
of what he says he experienced but they are\h\h

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harrowing images for the first time people will\h
see he suffered blistering on his arm when he\h\h

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threw his arm up like this to protect himself\h
from the bright light and on the area of his\h\h

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arm where he was exposed he suffered very grievous\h
burns that essentially have got infected and and\h\h

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bubbled up with some kind of infection they're\h
quite harrowing it's i've seen those photos\h\h

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uh they are troubling they're disturbing and yes\h
we will put them up on the uh the video version\h\h

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of this because damien has told us it's okay to do\h
that he's he's interested in in seeking the truth\h\h

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here and actually also seeking help if he he can\h
receive it um i i wonder though ross uh as people\h\h

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because we know how easy it is to dismiss\h
things or to deflect you go well yeah\h\h

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something really happened to that guy but all we\h
have is his version of events that this thing was\h\h

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landing in his backyard is there uh corroborating\h
evidence of any kind that that anything else can\h\h

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say yes uh damien was exposed to something\h
uh non-traditional out there well we know\h\h

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from his doctors who've actually examined him that\h
they are baffled by his injuries i mean how does\h\h

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somebody get burns on their arm from exposure to\h
some kind of radiation in their backyard these\h\h

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are really anomalous injuries and the interesting\h
thing about it is that if you actually look and uh\h\h

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study what is being said by people like professor\h
gary nolan at stanford university damien's the tip\h\h

328
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of an iceberg of people who are people involved\h
in proximity to uaps who have suffered injuries\h\h

329
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:16,880
as a result of exposure to those uaps professor\h
nolan who's an extremely reputable scientist\h\h

330
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:23,600
based at stanford university has described\h
anomalous mris he's actually described how\h\h

331
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:31,200
the mri of somebody who's been exposed to a uap is\h
very similar to somebody with multiple sclerosis\h\h

332
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:38,240
it looks like white matter disease this scarring\h
and this apparently is what damian's been told\h\h

333
00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:45,200
he's got on mris that he's sent to doctors at\h
harvard university who are doing research and\h\h

334
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:54,000
if you actually read what gary nolan said to vice\h
dot com he actually has suggested that some people\h\h

335
00:36:54,000 --> 00:37:03,200
who've been exposed to these objects actually have\h
shown um enhanced parts of the brain as a result\h\h

336
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:09,120
of their exposure to these uaps he's not saying\h
that he's developed a hypothesis yet to explain\h\h

337
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:15,920
what that means but basically when you have brain\h
differences as a result of exposure to uaps that's\h\h

338
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:20,640
scientifically significant and it should be being\h
investigated but i think the most interesting\h\h

339
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:25,520
thing the most disturbing thing is that of the\h
hundred or so patients that gary said he looked at\h\h

340
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:32,320
a quarter of them died from their injuries so\h
these people who claimed that they'd had an\h\h

341
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:39,040
encounter especially pilots were showing\h
a decrease in neurological capabilities\h\h

342
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:44,480
and a quarter of them gary said died from\h
their injuries and he actually linked it to\h\h

343
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:50,960
essentially being similar to what's\h
being now called havana syndrome so again\h\h

344
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:58,720
biological effects from exposure to uaps maybe\h
it's inadvertent but maybe what these objects\h\h

345
00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:04,160
are whatever they are perhaps they're doing it\h
inadvertently but this they seem to be causing\h\h

346
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:10,160
health problems in some humans that come up close\h
to them which is the takeaway and as we've said\h\h

347
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:15,600
before one of the things we want to do with this\h
uh show is to is to explain to people who are just\h\h

348
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:23,120
coming to the material what the breadth of this\h
uh this information is uh seeing unidentified\h\h

349
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:28,400
aerial phenomena or unidentified flying objects\h
whichever you choose to call them isn't just a\h\h

350
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:34,080
matter of bright lights in the sky there is\h
a physical aspect to what people are seeing\h\h

351
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:42,320
and as ross has just explained in in detail there\h
are literally human cases where people are injured\h\h

352
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:48,720
in what appear to be close contact with technology\h
now that doesn't mean that we're telling you\h\h

353
00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:54,000
whose technology it is but there seems to be a\h
fairly strong case that somebody's technology\h\h

354
00:38:54,000 --> 00:39:01,680
is when exposed to human beings very uh\h
harmful to their health and that is something\h\h

355
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:06,640
that uh gary nolan by the way great interview\h
uh he's always someone who speaks very directly\h\h

356
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:11,600
about this fascinating to hear from him so\h
yeah uh more on this in the future as well\h\h

357
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:18,400
so let's continue this theme bryce coming up\h
next in the next section of need to know let's\h\h

358
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:27,840
look closer at the military threat issue\h
of uaps coming up next on need to know\h\h

359
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:40,880
we've got the right to choose it\h
there ain't no way we'll lose it this

360
00:39:53,760 --> 00:40:02,240
don't pick up destiny cause you\h
don't know us you don't belong

361
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:24,240
we're not gonna take it no we ain't gonna\h
take it we're not gonna take it anymore

362
00:40:24,240 --> 00:40:32,240
three welcome back to need to know now we were\h
talking about the issue of threats the military\h\h

363
00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:38,720
threat from uaps is it real or isn't it one of\h
the things bryce that shocked me when i went back\h\h

364
00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:44,720
through the historical records is the overwhelming\h
evidence not just from the us but also from\h\h

365
00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:51,680
other countries like the soviet union of\h
incidents where there have in fact been pilots\h\h

366
00:40:51,680 --> 00:41:00,240
lost engaging with uaps and back in brighter days\h
when relationships with russia were friendlier at\h\h

367
00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:06,880
the end of the cold war in around 1989 1990 there\h
were people within the russian government who came\h\h

368
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:12,720
forward and started talking very candidly about\h
a secret investigation that took place within the\h\h

369
00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:18,560
soviet union which was ordered by yuri andropov\h
who was at the time the president of russia\h\h

370
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:23,680
very very concerned about the number\h
of incursions over nuclear facilities\h\h

371
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:29,120
and the evidence from places like the place we\h
talked about a couple of weeks ago by yukovich\h\h

372
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:36,480
where a uap meddled with the nuclear weapons\h
inside a silo and what really astonished me\h\h

373
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:43,120
was the evidence that came from a colonel boris\h
sokolov who did an interview with our friend\h\h

374
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:49,440
george knapp the investigative journalist from\h
las vegas and sokolov admitted that there were 40\h\h

375
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:59,280
war incidents where soviet jets engaged ufos three\h
of those planes crashed and pilots were killed\h\h

376
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:06,800
it's it's it's amazing and at the same time this\h
was taken so seriously apparently in the soviet\h\h

377
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:12,160
union that at one point there was a standing\h
order that ufos were not to be fired upon\h\h

378
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:19,120
because they had fired upon these ufos before and\h
as they explained to their pilots uh there was a\h\h

379
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:25,680
tremendous capacity for retaliation so it it's\h
clearly been something that that not only have\h\h

380
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:30,560
has the united states and also australia\h
and other countries taking interest in\h\h

381
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:36,400
so has the soviet union and also russia\h
now i think the thing that uh that we\h\h

382
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:42,320
ought to be able to say about this uh even\h
though incursions have happened over decades\h\h

383
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:50,800
any incursion in a military sense that is\h
unexplained where you don't know exactly\h\h

384
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:55,760
who it is and you you're not familiar\h
with exactly the technology that's there\h\h

385
00:42:55,760 --> 00:43:02,320
you have to say it's a national security issue\h
maybe it's not a national security threat but you\h\h

386
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:08,720
got to say that's a national security issue that\h
doesn't make you a war monger or someone who's\h\h

387
00:43:08,720 --> 00:43:14,640
just out pushing a narrative about threat it just\h
makes you aware of what what has been reported\h\h

388
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:22,640
so let's talk about a case where i think it's very\h
very clear that it's a national security issue and\h\h

389
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:30,080
it's not in america it's not in the soviet union\h
it's in brazil and it was called operation prato\h\h

390
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:36,480
operation plate and it's astonishing because it\h
shows essentially it's a series of investigations\h\h

391
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:44,080
done by the brazilian air force as a result of\h
complaints from locals in an area called calaras\h\h

392
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:52,240
in north eastern brazil in the 1970s around 1977\h
and all these people have gone on the record there\h\h

393
00:43:52,240 --> 00:43:58,320
was a lieutenant colonel urangi hollander in the\h
intelligence service of the brazilian air force\h\h

394
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:05,760
who was asked to investigate in this operation\h
prato claims from numerous people from 30 villages\h\h

395
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:13,840
in this calaras area who claimed that they'd been\h
burned temporarily paralyzed by beams of light\h\h

396
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:20,000
and there were also claims that at least\h
two people died from these attacks from\h\h

397
00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:26,560
craft that directed beams of light at people on\h
the ground these are incredible allegations i\h\h

398
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:33,600
know but they are being made by former members of\h
the brazilian air force who were directly involved\h\h

399
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:40,640
in these investigations brazil over the years has\h
been kind of a hotbed of ufo activity or at least\h\h

400
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:48,240
interest in reporting and reasonable investigation\h
you were mentioned i think it's probably yonda\h\h

401
00:44:48,240 --> 00:44:54,640
or or whatever but here's a man who goes out to\h
investigate it he sees some of this stuff himself\h\h

402
00:44:54,640 --> 00:45:00,880
so in other words it and they and they as well\h
yes photographs and they saw structured craft\h\h

403
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:08,320
they talked about one that was a 30 meter disc\h
that hovered overhead he and his men uh but but i\h\h

404
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:14,240
think there's another aspect to his investigation\h
that's also equally disturbing which is it wasn't\h\h

405
00:45:14,240 --> 00:45:18,960
all just lights in the sky or structured craft\h
in the sky these are things that they witnessed\h\h

406
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:26,400
going in the water and and and they blew lights\h
traveling quickly under the water it it was just\h\h

407
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:33,440
crazy stuff it's funny actually i'm very excited\h
to see that my friend and colleague james fox\h\h

408
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:38,640
is coming out soon with his new film which has\h
been investigating a lot of these incidents\h\h

409
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:46,640
in brazil uh he's apparently made great headway in\h
trying to get to the bottom of these sightings and\h\h

410
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:53,360
finding some of the brazilian investigators\h
who were investigating these claims of harm to\h\h

411
00:45:53,360 --> 00:46:00,000
human beings his films coming out later on this\h
year there's some amazing stuff in brazil and i\h\h

412
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:06,160
noticed the brazilian government the parliament\h
has actually also agreed that it's going to have\h\h

413
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:12,320
a public inquiry an investigation into uaps how\h
interesting it would be bryce if some of the\h\h

414
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:18,640
more interesting revelations about uaps didn't\h
in the end come from the united states first\h\h

415
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:24,320
but in fact from countries like brazil and\h
perhaps the former soviet union russia maybe\h\h

416
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:31,440
i'll tell you what as we we were talking about\h
this the one thing i realized is we've uh only\h\h

417
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:36,000
we haven't even scratched the surface of the\h
soviet union cases there's so many of them\h\h

418
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,840
and we both as you said talked to george\h
knapp who's been to the soviet union\h\h

419
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:44,400
and talked to some of these people about it in\h
the day and and they're fascinating cases and\h\h

420
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:50,400
the same with brazil and james fox going down\h
there a lot of cases i remember um a few years\h\h

421
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:55,760
back when rich dolan and i were writing the book a\h
d after disclosure and we were trying to think to\h\h

422
00:46:55,760 --> 00:47:00,720
ourselves well what are the what are the things uh\h
the the the events that would have to happen that\h\h

423
00:47:00,720 --> 00:47:07,840
might cause a global exposure uh to the topic that\h
would lead to an acknowledgement that we could\h\h

424
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:13,120
tentatively call disclosure and one of them was\h
we simply said to ourselves it doesn't have to\h\h

425
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:18,560
be just the united states that leads it looks like\h
the united states has been leading all these years\h\h

426
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:24,080
but let's face it if brazil were to just say we\h
don't care we're just going to tell people what\h\h

427
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:30,400
we think we know and lay out before the world\h
the case of just what's happened in brazil it\h\h

428
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:36,800
would probably start a dialogue that would ripple\h
worldwide and cause countries and governments\h\h

429
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:44,320
all over this planet to have to be accountable for\h
some of their own cases so i always look at these\h\h

430
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:51,840
international global cases as things that are just\h
waiting to catch the public and and go further\h\h

431
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:59,200
now bryce one thing i got slightly wrong in uh\h
the last show we did was when we were talking\h\h

432
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:05,520
about how the former french spy boss alain\h
giulia had said that he was aware of reports\h\h

433
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:10,960
of underwater submerged objects traveling\h
greater than the speed of sand underwater\h\h

434
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:17,760
and i said that that speed was the equivalent of\h
traveling five miles in one second i was wrong and\h\h

435
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:22,720
my good friend ivan has pointed this out to me\h
what i should have said was that while signed\h\h

436
00:48:22,720 --> 00:48:29,680
travels faster underwater it's not five miles\h
in one second in water depending on temperature\h\h

437
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:35,840
water density and depth it's approximately four\h
times faster than the speed of sound in air\h\h

438
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:43,600
so it's approximately four miles in four point\h
seven seconds suffice to say it was extremely fast\h\h

439
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:48,800
especially considering uh alain giulia is saying\h
it was greater than the speed of sun well first\h\h

440
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:54,720
of all i like that we do make corrections and and\h
i'm sure that correction you've just made is is\h\h

441
00:48:54,720 --> 00:49:00,400
welcome but i want to underline for everyone even\h
the correction let's go back to this correction\h\h

442
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:09,360
four miles 4.7 seconds now we can all pretty\h
well count to five let's do that one two\h\h

443
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:20,320
three four five can you imagine something in that\h
period of time going four miles under water under\h\h

444
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:28,240
water underwater and the thing about it is since\h
we ran that segment i've had more correspondence\h\h

445
00:49:28,240 --> 00:49:35,840
with people from shall i say navies not just the\h
australian navy but other navies around the world\h\h

446
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:42,560
and they've told me that they are aware of these\h
objects known as usos underwater submerged objects\h\h

447
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:49,440
and essentially these rapid speeds are a\h
matter of record i'm told in the archives\h\h

448
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:54,160
of your navy in the united states\h
and allegedly mine here in australia\h\h

449
00:49:54,880 --> 00:50:00,960
so there's definitely mysteries there that we\h
need we have not heard them we have not heard\h\h

450
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:07,520
the last of uh underwater vehicles uh we call them\h
trans medium vehicles in the in the trade i guess\h\h

451
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:13,680
because they seem to be able to transfer from\h
space into atmosphere into water and that's pretty\h\h

452
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:17,600
uh troubling and by the way i just want to\h
throw out just to come back to brazil for a\h\h

453
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:24,640
second and underwater and tie this all together\h
there's a brazilian general alfredo uchoa who uh\h\h

454
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:28,960
investigated a lot of these things and this is a\h
quote that this guy laid out this is why i say if\h\h

455
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:33,360
the brazilians decided to just start talking about\h
all the things they've turned up over the years\h\h

456
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:39,280
his quote is well others don't care about us they\h
are indifferent they want to study our planet our\h\h

457
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:44,880
living conditions our animals our plants and so on\h
without paying any attention to us as responsible\h\h

458
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:52,960
men so sometimes they can be aggressive\h
so i mean we are just we're in the middle\h\h

459
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:59,440
of an evolving story that is hard to get\h
your hands around and we're trying to and\h\h

460
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:05,360
that's the purpose of the show and we'll just\h
keep doing it till we get it right and if you\h\h

461
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:13,520
want to hear any of our previous podcasts\h
or vodcasts you can go to www.need2no.today

462
00:51:14,240 --> 00:51:22,240
and you can listen to all of our now 10 episodes\h
but believe me bryce and i will be back soon with\h\h

463
00:51:22,240 --> 00:51:35,840
even more on need to know happy 10th everybody and\h
remember we can handle the truth people get ready

464
00:51:48,320 --> 00:52:03,840
it's our time to come of age

465
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:31,840
now

466
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:45,840
too much to learn

467
00:52:59,120 --> 00:52:59,840
of it's

468
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:41,840
you say it will blow my mind

469
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:55,840
we'll change mankind you\h
say things will fall apart

470
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:23,840
now

471
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:51,840
when we see the future

472
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:11,760
we say this is the plan we say

473
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:19,840
we need to know

474
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:31,440
just a lost weather balloon an air force\h
spokesman confirms tonight that this was\h\h

475
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:47,840
nosewine saucer sports is next says

476
00:56:00,720 --> 00:56:01,840
west